| Author |
Message |
 
lydiajane
Favorite SISter (7298)
|
# Posted: 11 Nov 2007 01:13 - Edited by: lydiajane
This is a new children's movie and book series that is coming out this Christmas time in which the author is hoping will kill God in the minds of children. I find this quite sad and disturbing. Please read more about it at snopes.com to learn more.
I hope I don't start some big controversy over books/literature/free speech/Tom Sawyer/etc...but I do think it is important that we know what our kids are watching/reading and decide for ourselves.
|
 
scrapamela
Vogue SISter (3195)
|
# Posted: 11 Nov 2007 17:31
that's sad...
|
 
tracinicole
Favorite SISter (16316)
|
# Posted: 11 Nov 2007 18:00
I just did a little research on this movie. Looks very interesting. I am not much of a sci-fic fan so I probably won't see it. Looks very Harry Potterish to me which I haven't read or seen because, I am not much of a sci-fic fan. LOL. Remember the controversy over the Teletubbies and Scooby doo (far to many more to list), sometimes I think people read a little too much into things... :) Although, Scobby and Shaggy did seem to have one heck of a case of the munchies! :)
|
justem
Vogue SISter (3680)
|
# Posted: 11 Nov 2007 18:12
I got an email forward about this, and I assumed like most forwards it was false, but it turns out to be true. It is very interesting...
|
mellymel
Big SIS (4364)
|
# Posted: 11 Nov 2007 18:45
there's an in depth article in this month's Atlantic Monthly magazine - unfortunately only avail online to subscribers
the article is written from the perspective of how hollywood actually removed all the anti-God and God in general from the movie.
it confirms that the books are indeed written as the anti-narnia (the author's words), and the movie is dumbed down - the idea being that people will then be curious and buy the books...
atlantic monthly is not a conservative magazine either.
i don't take it as alarmist or censorship, but as a parent i like to get info to make decisions for my children and my cash.
|
 
metrochic
Favorite SISter (14639)
|
# Posted: 11 Nov 2007 19:38
Please read more about it at snopes.com and warn other parents about this movie/book.
Well, except for this statement -- I didn't mind reading this thread at all. I agree everyone should be well-informed but I don't plan to "warn" anyone. Each to decide for themselves, right? There are plenty of things that perpetuate the idea and ideals of God, but I wouldn't feel the need to warn an Atheist about those just because I know it goes against their beliefs. Informed is one thing but alarmist is another.
I am feeling a big "defend free speech" instinct here, but I don't want to start controversy either and truly believe that wasn't your intention. Thanks for bringing this up, though. I really am interested to see what people think about this book/movie.
|
lydiajane
Favorite SISter (7298)
|
# Posted: 11 Nov 2007 20:42
I certainly do not want to offend anyone or start any controversy at all, so I edited myself. I was trying to be careful in my wording, so thank you for pointing that out. :-)
|
krissie
Favorite SISter (6002)
|
# Posted: 11 Nov 2007 20:54
Hi! Yep, got that email and snoped it, googled it and anything else I could get my hands on. Now, please know what I am about to say does not mean that I think everyone should do this, but my thoughts. I know they removed the religious undertones from the movie, but I really just don''t want to go watch a movie that was inspired by a book in which the heroine kills God. I just can't. Now I am sure this is a really good movie causeI watched the trailer and i does really look very interesting, but the whole story line things bothers me a lot.
Thanks for letting me speak my mind! :)
|
weebbt
Favorite SISter (11205)
|
# Posted: 11 Nov 2007 20:54
Wow, I had no idea. Thought the movie looked cool, didn't realize there was a "message." Same thing with Narnia. I'm kind of naive that way I guess.
|
krissie
Favorite SISter (6002)
|
# Posted: 11 Nov 2007 20:57
I'm kind of naive that way I guess.
Girlfried...I am too, but you are talking to the Google queen! ;) I also work in a Student Ministry and am always having parents call me about movies and such and so we try and keep up with what's out there so I can give the parents as much info and links to articles and such as I can.
|
metrochic
Favorite SISter (14639)
|
# Posted: 11 Nov 2007 21:19
I know they removed the religious undertones from the movie, but I really just don't want to go watch a movie that was inspired by a book in which the heroine kills God.
I guess I just don't get the whole idea of not watching something because you don't agree with the "message". Tons of people watch movies about killing (I personally don't enjoy horror flicks, but that's not the point) but I don't think that means they are going to go out and kill people. Just because I watch this movie doesn't mean I'll take it's "message" to heart either.
|
krissie
Favorite SISter (6002)
|
# Posted: 11 Nov 2007 21:29
I guess I just don't get the whole idea of not watching something because you don't agree with the "message".
I understand what you are saying, but it's just how I feel same as how you have your feelings. None of us are going to b the same.
|
metrochic
Favorite SISter (14639)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 00:57
I understand what you are saying, but it's just how I feel
Totally understand that. And I agree, no two of us are the same. :)
|
mellymel
Big SIS (4364)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 07:31
I agree with both of you...but I think the point is simply that we are editing for our children. Definitely as an adult, I watch things I don't agree with all the time. But as a parent of kids this movie is geared toward, I am still free to guide them elsewhere. Don't we do that all the time too?
|
metrochic
Favorite SISter (14639)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 10:26
Absolutely, Mel. BUT, here's the rub for me. I'm truly weighing if I want the message alone to be the reason I don't take her to see this movie. Sure, I don't let her watch things that are violent or sexual or rated above what she should see at 7 years old, but on religious (or anti so as the case may be) message alone, I'm not sure I can say "absolutely not". I realize I'm probably in the minority here and that this is a personal choice and I'm okay with that.
I just feel like a specific religion was pushed on me growing up. I want her to find her own way, hopefully with as much knowledge of everything that is out there as is possible. Do I hope she chooses something specific? Yes. Will I teach her what I believe? Yes. Will I say "you must believe this because it is the absolute truth"? Absolutely not. Again, I realize this is a minority opinion and I'm okay with that, too.
Either way, I like that this whole thing is again opening up spiritual dialogue, no matter which camp people land in. I always hear people say, "I never discuss politics and religion." but that's another thing I don't get. These can be two major parts of who a person is and open discussion about either is healthy and necessary, IMHO. Even when we don't all agree... :)
|
desdichaedo
SISter Elle (1876)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 11:01 - Edited by: desdichaedo
I just feel like a specific religion was pushed on me growing up. I want her to find her own way, hopefully with as much knowledge of everything that is out there as is possible.
I believe that in writing these books (I've read them all, btw) Philip Pullman was trying very hard to do just what you describe: push a certain idea on children as they are growing up. He makes no bones about it when questioned in interviews, and the message is very heavy handed in the books.
What's most dangerous about the books, in my opinion, is not his anti-religious ideas. I think parents with strong religious convictions are already raising their children to accept that some people are going to challenge their faith.
What I find more concerning are his anti-parental and anti-authority messages. He doesn't just have a girl who kills god ~ that's just part of a larger message to the young readers that no one can tell them what to do. And if they try, well, they can always rebel, or they can run away. Maybe even kill them. These children also meet up with others who flat out say adults can't be trusted & authority should be disregarded. That their teachers are liars who deliberately hide the truth from them.
I personally don't think that's a good message for children to be receiving. There is a certain time when they should be told that it's okay to ask questions of authority figures when you don't understand something, but I don't think we really want to build a nation of tiny anarchists. :)
On top of which, the books aren't even that great! The Golden Compass is the best of the three, and they pretty much go straight downhill from page one.
Anyway, that's my take on the whole thing. I don't recommend the books, and I have no plans to see the movie because I know that it's pretty much all downhill from here.
I guess I would just recommend that parents consider pre-screening this and any other movie their children want to see unless they are certain the content is in line with the values they are trying to instill in their family and in their kids.
|
mlamarredesigns
Style Maven (633)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 11:09 - Edited by: mlamarredesigns
Omg that book was listed in the school reading list for the summer.
|
nanbhack
SISter Elle (1593)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 11:42
omg I so didn't know that was what the book was about! My 12 year old neice LOVES it. hmmm.
I am only on like - chapter 3 *embarrassed* - however - I will still see the movie.
See... let me tell you what happened to my mom and I this weekend. To make a very long story short - my mom and I were screamed at by a woman thinking that we did something wrong - when really we didn't. She was dragging her kiddy behind her and screamed "we set a bad example for her child and shame on us and they would pray for us in church".
My mom said to her: um... what kind of example are you sending to your child?! It is okay to scream at someone and you don't know all the facts?
Now my mom is like extremely Catholic, extremely involved in her church, the first one to tell me if I did something wrong or if she did something wrong. Guilt runs deep in our family! LOL. So for my Mom (btw she has 7 kids and she used to look in the Chicago Catholic to see if I could go to a movie when I was a kiddy!) to turn around and say that to another mother? Omg that shocked the you know what out of me.
So with that being said. Yes sometimes people write things that they believe in, sometimes they write to just get a rise out of someone. Basically, we have all been raised with our own moral standards and it is up to us to decide what do to for us and our family. However, I do caution anyone who feels that they can shield or shelter their kids from everything.
60 Minutes did a report about the Millenium kids - ie the next generation of workers. It was very interesting because it definately not how I - the Gen X ers were raised. Not bashing any parenting skill at all - I am just saying that to see the shift in thinking on work from the boomers to the millenium's is facinating - so the point I am saying is this - You all know how to raise the kids the best you can, someday you are going to have to have the faith that they will relay on those morals/goals/thoughts etc to live life to the very fullest. In my humble opinion, one book will not change the course of your entire teachings to your child. I would say - welcome the discussion! It will give you the opportunity to explain what you believe and how you see it!
but that is just me... I grew up sheltered and I didn't know anything accept for the Catholic faith. I am still very Catholic - but I am facinated about everyone else - because that is what we are a huge melting pot of ideas and cultures.
hugs and lubs - nan
|
metrochic
Favorite SISter (14639)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 12:34
In my humble opinion, one book will not change the course of your entire teachings to your child. I would say - welcome the discussion! It will give you the opportunity to explain what you believe and how you see it!
I love that POV.
I personally don't think that's a good message for children to be receiving. There is a certain time when they should be told that it's okay to ask questions of authority figures when you don't understand something, but I don't think we really want to build a nation of tiny anarchists.
I am going to teach my child at her current age to respect authority and do what's right, but you can bet your sweet britches that as she grows older and wiser, I'll teach her that authority should be challenged in certain situations. I don't think just not understanding something is the only time it's okay to question authority, but that's just me. And if we're talking as broad a view as the nation, even a little anarchy sounds good compared to what we've got now. But now I'm switching arguments. ;)
Whether or not the author's intent is to push the ideas in his book on kids, I think it's our responsibility as parents to make sure our children realize that there are tons of different ideas and views out there and that they should take everything with a grain of salt. I understand not wanting your kids to be influenced by certain things and I respect each person's decision for their own family as they see fit -- I am just not down with the "we must not let our kids be influenced by this bad thing" idea. I see so many people saying, "If we just don't let them read/see/do this, it won't influence them", but I truly don't believe that's the way the world works.
|
nanbhack
SISter Elle (1593)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 12:57
aww shucks thanks Metrochic! *blushes*
|
china59
SISter Elle (1988)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 13:12
I am going to teach my child at her current age to respect authority and do what's right, but you can bet your sweet britches that as she grows older and wiser, I'll teach her that authority should be challenged in certain situations. I don't think just not understanding something is the only time it's okay to question authority, but that's just me. And if we're talking as broad a view as the nation, even a little anarchy sounds good compared to what we've got now. But now I'm switching arguments. ;)
Thanks a lot for everything you said in your different posts, because in each you expressed exactly what I feel, much better than I could have.
I feel strongly on this subject (the religious one AND the political one), and not being originally anglophone, I was afraid I might offend anyone.
So thanks a lot !
|
metrochic
Favorite SISter (14639)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 13:28
thanks! :)
if i spent my life worrying about offending people, i'd probably never open my mouth. we could all use thicker skin now and then, ya know? so speak your mind!
|
desdichaedo
SISter Elle (1876)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 13:29
I am going to teach my child at her current age to respect authority and do what's right, but you can bet your sweet britches that as she grows older and wiser, I'll teach her that authority should be challenged in certain situations. I don't think just not understanding something is the only time it's okay to question authority, but that's just me.
Oh, I don't think that's the only time authority should be challenged at all! This entire country was founded by "rule-breakers" who challenged authority. Change is brought about by questioning, suggesting alternatives & working, working, working with (and against) the established authority. That's certainly something I agree needs to be taught. It's one of the greatest advantages of a free society.
I don't know why, but I had it in my mind as I was writing that post that we were talking about really little kids (like maybe seven) and in my opinion that was too young to introduce the "all adults are liars/authority figures are intrinsically evil dictators" POV.
I also agree that in most cases, one book is not going to completely change a person's worldview. (Although I would also argue, that there are plenty off books that have forever changed the lives of their readers ~ the written word can be very powerful.) I don't think that the "His Dark Materials" trilogy is made up of those types of powerful, life changing books (they weren't for me). But then I don't think I ever wrote/implied that they were those kinds of books. I certainly didn't mean to, if that's how it came across. I really meant to just say that I didn't think the "worst" thing about the books was that the main character kills god.
I also wholeheartedly agree that it is impossible to 100% shelter children or keep them 100% safe. And to a large extent the best thing a parent can do for them in that regard is to give them the tools they need to make informed decisions they can live with. Before they have reached a developmental age where that is possible, though, I do think parents/caregivers need educate themselves about the people, places and things their children are involved with and make sure that they are what is good for the child at that point in time ~ to take nothing for granted.
|
nanbhack
SISter Elle (1593)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 13:46
if i spent my life worrying about offending people, i'd probably never open my mouth. we could all use thicker skin now and then, ya know? so speak your mind!
And to quote Eleanor Roosevelt.....
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent. [/i]
You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience by which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.
I could not, at any age, be content to take my place in a corner by the fireside and simply look on.
Life was meant to be lived, and curiosity must be kept alive. One must never, for whatever reason, turn his back on life.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built.
Do what you feel in your heart to be right, for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I have spent many years of my life in opposition, and I rather like the role.
http://www.thinkexist.com/english/Author/x/Author_ 2769_1.htm
Wow I didn't know she had this many quotes! But what she says is TRUE.
Gosh do I feel like a bout of GIRL/WOMAN!POWER! coming on! lol.
|
metrochic
Favorite SISter (14639)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 14:32
I don't know why, but I had it in my mind as I was writing that post that we were talking about really little kids (like maybe seven) and in my opinion that was too young to introduce the "all adults are liars/authority figures are intrinsically evil dictators" POV.
did i mention my girl was 7? maybe that's why? yeah, i don't want her thinking that's the case but i'm not going to necessarily try to bubble her from the fact that some people do think that way either.
And to a large extent the best thing a parent can do for them in that regard is to give them the tools they need to make informed decisions they can live with. Before they have reached a developmental age where that is possible, though, I do think parents/caregivers need educate themselves about the people, places and things their children are involved with and make sure that they are what is good for the child at that point in time ~ to take nothing for granted.
Agreed. I never meant to imply that we shouldn't be educated about what we let our kids see. I just want that to be the focus more so than the "this is wrong and this is right" POV.
|
josafeen
CosmoGirl SISter (70)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 21:06 - Edited by: josafeen
sorry for the delete, my post just sounded arrogant, and thats not how i meant it.
Great discussion, very interesting points of view, will be watching :-)
|
metrochic
Favorite SISter (14639)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 22:12
josafeen -- wish i'd have read what you wrote before the delete. :) thanks for reading!
|
desdichaedo
SISter Elle (1876)
|
# Posted: 12 Nov 2007 22:27
sorry for the delete, my post just sounded arrogant, and thats not how i meant it.
I got a chance to read it before you deleted it, and I didn't think it sounded arrogant. It was your opinion, and it was expressed in a respectful way ~ there's nothing arrogant about sharing your opinion. At least, I hope there isn't, because I do it all the time! :)
That's something I've really appreciated about this thread. It dealt with difficult topics that could have gotten real ugly, real fast (religion, politics, child-rearing) and yet there was no name calling, no rudeness. It was very refreshing!
|
